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Kotchakorn: It’s so nice to have you with us today. Mr. Takano.

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Takano: Hi Kotchakorn, we were planning to invite you to Japan in March to visit theÌýnatural disaster site of the tsunami in 2011, together with Professor Uehara. WeÌýwanted to have your lecture in Tokyo, and we were excited to have a meeting of landscape architects there. It is unfortunate we had to cancel that due to theÌýpandemic.

But I’m very happy to see your strong leadership as the chairwoman of LandscapeÌýArchitects Without Borders (LAWB.). As the President, I really appreciate that. ¾«¶«Ó°ÊÓÌý10 years ago, right after the big earthquake in Chile, one female delegate [at aÌýconference] shared with us about her country’s suffering. She addressed landscapeÌýarchitects and asked what IFLA could do to help. Her speech was quite shocking andÌýsensational, leading us to a serious discussion that gave rise to LAWB.ÌýI think she would be very happy to see a person like you lead the youngÌýgeneration and carry her spirit onwards. I’m very happy to participate in thisÌýinterview program.

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K: This is such a beautiful story and I feel very honored. Thank you for sharing itÌýwith us.

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T: It’s very important for each leader of ¾«¶«Ó°ÊÓ’s committees to show strong leadership.

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K: Mr. Takano, having 50 years of experience in the profession, I am sure you haveÌýbeen through the ups and downs of many global crises including this Coronavirus pandemic. What will be your prediction on how we as a profession will get through this?

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T: I believe this has made us think more about the changes taking place from the bottomÌýof the social structure. When Europe suffered from the Bubonic Plague, though aÌýhorrible event, it brought about the Renaissance—new culture, art, philosophies, andÌýtechnologies. I’m sure that with this pandemic we’re facing now, we’ll have a chanceÌýto create positive changes for society.

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For example, I think many people sought to live in big, dense cities with tall high-risesÌýin an urban environment. At the same time, globalism has become very prominent asÌýpeople busy themselves traveling around the world. These two concepts haveÌýbecome symbols of success for many business people, as well as landscapeÌýarchitects.

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But when the pandemic began, those two symbols turned strongly against humans,Ìýcausing us to suffer because our high urban densities and globalism spread theÌýcoronavirus all over the world. This pandemic raised fundamental doubtsÌýabout the direction we were heading.

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K: When speaking about social changes and the need for other possibilities, perhapsÌýresilience in sustainable design to counter the damage we have done, how wouldÌýyou describe this positive change for landscape architects?

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T: We have to think about urbanism. Many people still think of it as the concentrationÌýof people moving into big cities—this is what we need to reconsider.

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K: What about urban sprawl, Mr. Takano?

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T: I don’t mean to promote urban sprawl but a more equitable approach, a balancedÌýdistribution of development

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K: The distribution of development shouldn’t be bundled up in one big chunk, butÌýrather distributing these opportunities more evenly.

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T: We should start by spreading out the population more, instead of justÌýconcentrating it. Though cities are growing large, rural areas still remain abundant inÌýmany countries. These two works together like wheels on a car—if they are notÌýbalanced, the car will not run straight.

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But after several discussions during the pandemic, many are still focused on solvingÌýthe issue within big cities. Instead, let’s consider how we can restructure ourÌýcountry—I think if we move more people into rural areas, there is more room forÌýproblem-solving.

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People discuss a lot about social distancing, but with such a high urban destiny, it isÌýalmost impossible. I used to work in Tokyo for 15 years, but 30 years ago, I decided toÌýmove out to Hokkaido. We are now operating in an office in a very small farmingÌývillage with a population of a few hundred people, but we still manage to do manyÌýinternational projects. It is not necessary to live in a big city.

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In order to create a safe living environment away from coronavirus, we need moreÌýspace and more nature. If we have that, we can have better design and moreÌýpossibilities as a landscape architect.

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K: I personally appreciate the rural and urban areas that you’ve shared as examples ofÌýopen space for our practice. As landscape architects, what can we do to push forwardÌýthe changes you speak about?

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T: First, we need to go back and learn about our own culture. Globalism taught usÌýabout many new things happening around the world, but at the same time, itsÌýinfluence grew too strong and made design homogenous. People began losing theirÌýown cultural identity in design. More than just technical answers, we can find greatÌýsolutions to coexist with nature in our own cultural background.ÌýWhen I was in Bangkok a few years ago for the IFLA conference, I asked my studentsÌýto take me somewhere nice. They brought me to your design site at ChulalongkornÌýUniversity Centenary Park. It was wonderful. I realized design, as modern as it can beÌýnow, its philosophical background is very deeply rooted in your culture—how ThaiÌýpeople relate to water and live with nature.

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That is key to future design possibilities; people tend to forget the rich cultureÌýand philosophy in their own countries—we should start there. Now, the pandemic hasÌýdisabled us from traveling a lot, so we have more time to study at home.

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K: Thank you for your example. Even Thai designers forget that too, especially as ourÌýcountry becomes paved in concrete, we forget our natural landscape which is a coreÌýprinciple of design. What are other changes we can learn from this global pandemic?

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T: We learned a lot of things from working remotely during the pandemic. We didn’tÌýhave to commute or go on business trips, saving more time and costs. Being at home,Ìýwe have more time to see our family. We had the opportunity to see our ownÌýneighborhood and meet our neighbors. Now we have a better neighborhoodÌýnetwork. All of this built lots of potential for future community design.

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I think Thailand is working hard towards public participation, and I think thisÌýexperience has presented a great opportunity to improve upon that. If we introduceÌýmore workshops and public participation in building parks and green infrastructure,ÌýI think it would be very helpful not only for the exchange of ideas but in motivatingÌýpeople to take initiative and responsibility in the usage and maintenance of theseÌýpublic spaces.

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Workshops tend to just collect the voice of citizens making requests to theÌýgovernment, but I think that isn’t right. I think we should change the communityÌýdesign process to encourage people to work for their own community andÌýneighborhood.

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K: I think what you said is very relevant to our late king’s Self-Sufficiency Theory.ÌýKing Rama 9 was very involved with ecology, and his concepts related a lot to self-contained communities as well as to Buddhism.

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What about human connection in a broader sense? We had planned for an IFLAÌýmeeting in Malaysia this August, but now it cannot happen. What does this mean forÌýour modes of communication and sense of community, during this time that we cannotÌýbe together?

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T: We work in a profession that combats climate change, yet we get on airplanesÌýthat emit carbon. It’s funny that we come together to discuss global warming while weÌýare contributing to it. But if we use online communication, we can avoid those environmentalÌýimpacts. We are now considering how we can re-organize these conferences and ourÌýmethods of communication. I miss face-to-face interaction, but we have to somehowÌýcompromise between the two.

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K: We miss the human connection, but that, too, can be represented in various forms.

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T: If we don’t do these online conversations like the one you’re organizing now, weÌýactually talk less, maybe only once a year meeting face-to-face. But it has itsÌýadvantages and disadvantages and we need to use both.

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K: I admire your positive take on it. Cities are now reopening and it is highly likely thatÌýthey’ll always have to impose lockdowns back-and-forth again as people comeÌýtogether again. How can we as landscape architects help aid that transition?

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T: That’s a difficult question. If we don’t stop living in such condensed cities, weÌýcannot avoid repeating these lockdowns and reopenings. Even now, I think this terribleÌýsituation may continue for a year and even more. We are rushing for a quick answerÌýto this problem, but unless we fundamentally change from the basics, it will be veryÌýdifficult.

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K: During these lockdowns, people are becoming more stressed and longing to be inÌýopen spaces. With our profession dealing directly with places such as parks, gardens,Ìýand streetscapes, in your perspective, what new role do we have and what designÌýaspects should we be more concerned about?

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T: A few weeks ago, I had a conference in Malaysia with a similar topic. ManyÌýlandscape architects were proposing many technical solutions, many of which wereÌýinteresting, but I still think the most important thing still lies in the basics.

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We need to change our city density. In big cities, the ratio of people to green spaces isÌýunbalanced. We should question whether we’ll continue to create big confusing cities,Ìýor redesign our relationship with cities and rural areas.

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If you look at big companies in Tokyo and Bangkok now, perhaps 30 percent will haveÌýto stay, but the rest 70 percent can operate in the countryside. This means 70 percentÌýof their families will also move, reducing urban pressure and making it easier to makeÌýcomfortable spaces and green infrastructure.

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K: We’ve seen so much inequity in our societies during this lockdown, with the work-from-home culture as a real privilege for some professions and unavailable to manyÌýsuch as daily essential workers. How can we landscape architects promote more justÌýand equitable societies?

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T: Before, our skills and knowledge as landscape architects can help many situations.ÌýBut now, we’re faced with much more complicated problems. Landscape architectsÌýalone can’t solve the problem—we need to work with politicians, economists, cityÌýplanners, and sociologists all together.

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We cannot leave people behind, as well as any country behind. Now we have 14Ìýassociations as members of the ¾«¶«Ó°ÊÓ, but we have 18 more non-member countries in our region which I am trying to inviteÌýinto the IFLA network. Many countries are developing, and they’ll really need a goodÌýlandscape architectural point of view to build a good relationship with nature and theÌýurban environment. Without landscape architecture, they might end up with anotherÌýbig city masterplan.

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Since I’ve become the President, another idea I’ve proposed is an internshipÌýprogram. We have many Thai university students in the internship, which we’veÌýbeen doing for over 30 years with over 300 students from 33 countries across the world.ÌýEven our small office in Hokkaido can do this. If each of our ¾«¶«Ó°ÊÓ members in theÌý14 associations, perhaps three offices each, started doing this and networking withÌýeach other, I think it will create lots of opportunities for the younger generation. I thinkÌýit’s very important to work in a foreign country and work with students from otherÌýcountries to exchange their knowledge and philosophies to build strongÌýfundamentals for the future of landscape architecture.

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K: This is a really strong insight on how we need a multidisciplinary workingÌýapproach in order to create a truly just world, that we cannot work alone. With that, weÌýneed to share these opportunities with many countries, as well as for the youngerÌýgeneration to learn these differences in working abroad. I think creating a just world isÌýabout understanding our differences to figure out a place where we can live together.

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T: Before, many people would go study abroad—I went to the US, and you too—andÌýcome back and start building their own concepts and philosophies, mixing togetherÌýtheir overseas experience with their own culture.

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Saying that, many students in Japan want to work with you. We are now at a stageÌýwhen we’re learning more about each other within Asia, not just across the continent,Ìýand it’s important to build upon Asian landscape identities—each country is not theÌýsame, whether with their nature or culture.

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K: So what is your message to the world and to landscape architects right now?

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T: We are heading to a different stage of our profession. We’ve discussed previouslyÌýwithin IFLA about how can we can upgrade the professional position within each country,Ìýbut now we need to face much bigger problems like climate change and the pandemicÌýand its impacts on the future. And to work on that, I think we need a stronger networkÌýwithin Asia and much more experience working together.ÌýI’m hoping the internship program could be the base of this idea. If this could beÌýintegrated with the educational curriculum, perhaps a student could spend a half-yearÌýin Thailand or in Japan, and these experiences could be credited.

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K: There are connected problems of climate change and this pandemic. What is yourÌýthought on this?

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T: When speaking about climate change, many people say it’s important, but manyÌýalso say it’s difficult. But during this pandemic, we had to stop many things likeÌýfactories and transportation, and so even in one or two months' time, air pollution andÌýCO2 reduced. So if we wanted to do it seriously, I think it’s possible.

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Now people in India can enjoy the fantastic view of the Himalayas and the water hasÌýbecome cleaner in Venice, and even the beaches in Thailand. So if we really want toÌýchange, I think we can. The pandemic showed some of those examples, and it’s beenÌývery encouraging to me.

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K: In such a dark period, we still saw a light of hope.

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T: But we had to change from the basics. If we wear a shirt and misplace the firstÌýbutton, then we get the rest all wrong and we’d have to go back and change from theÌýbeginning. Cities are similar. When discussing how we can solve the pandemic issue,Ìýwe can’t just think about the surface. We have to dig to the bottom of philosophiesÌýand of people.

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K: Many professions, such as in healthcare and business, have been shaken andÌýchanged. But I feel like our profession has stood very strongly with our direction inÌýcreating a better world and environment and we’ve just had to align our work with theÌýcircumstances of the current challenge. What are your thoughts on that?

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T: I think you’re completely right. I’m not pessimistic about it, and I’m sure landscapeÌýarchitecture has a bright future if we work cleverly. I’d like to propose for landscapeÌýarchitecture firms to move out of cities to spread manpower. Perhaps have aÌýheadquarter in the city, but production can be done in rural areas too. It would createÌýlots of interesting activity which can reduce pressure in urban areas, where we wouldÌýhave more space to improve the situation too. Also with new people coming into ruralÌýareas, we can activate these villages. These are interesting things I’d like to seeÌýhappen.

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K: When you speak about distributing manpower, are you also suggesting that we notÌýonly focus on designing big cities but for landscape architecture to serve the naturalÌýworld, biodiversity, and communities in developed rural areas?

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T: We need to do both together. It is very difficult to try and figure out socialÌýdistancing when we are living so densely in a concentrated city, and we’d only beÌýcoming up with surface solutions.

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K: Thank you so much. Mr. Takano for your shared visions. After this, let us share with you views from another 14 landscape architects across the Asia – Pacific region about their vision, hopes and fears and what we, landscape architects, can contribute to the reimagining and reshaping the world after this pandemic.

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*Please join us in shaping our post-pandemic world and landscape architecture profession, by sharing your thoughts and idea aspirations for the new world you envision. We will be collecting everyone's ideas and sharing them with our Landscape Without Borders Community. It is time, we look forward to hearing from you.Ìý

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Produced by: ¾«¶«Ó°ÊÓ Landscape without Border, Kotchakorn Voraakhom, TALA,Ìýand IFLA Secretary team

Text editor: Assoc. Prof. Mike Barthelmeh NZILA

Graphic:Ìý¾«¶«Ó°ÊÓ Landscape without Border, Watcharapon Nimwatanagul, TALA

Communication: Bosco, So Ho Lung, HKILA

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